The Tarot of the Bohemians – Part II, the new album by Heavenwood, marks a return to the band's roots, recapturing the soul and authenticity of their early years. Metal Imperium's conversation with Ricardo Dias about this record turned out to be much more than just a discussion about an album.
Ricardo transforms every answer into a journey, given the depth of his reflections, and any time limit seems insufficient to explore all the themes this album deserves. Even so, we dived deep into the emotion in music, the creative process, his recovery from a serious accident, the symbolism of the Tarot, and the way he views both the present and the future of Heavenwood.
M.I. – First of all, congratulations on the new album. It’s absolutely fantastic. I have to admit I’m old school and I always go back to the first albums by the bands that shaped me. I honestly wasn’t expecting such a good record. I’ve played it on repeat.
Thank you very much. I’m happy to hear that because that was exactly my intention. I to make this album in the most old-school way possible, without relying too much on processing or all the conveniences that exist nowadays. I’ve talked about that in several interviews because some people really do notice the difference. It’s difficult to explain, but there’s a sense of commitment and humanity that you don’t always find today.
We live in a time when so much music is released that, sometimes, we almost become immune to it. I try to stay up to date and listen to new releases, even genres that aren’t really my thing, but I find a lot of it too cold and too digital. In the end, I always find myself returning to the classics.
M.I. – I do exactly the same!
I can be listening to new music on Spotify and, every now and then, I still come across something that surprises me, but it’s rare. When I simply want to enjoy music, I go back to the early albums by Paradise Lost, Testament, Metallica… There’s a huge emotional difference there. I don’t know if it’s nostalgia or not, but music has that power to transport us… it can take us back to happy moments, but also to more difficult periods of our lives. It becomes the soundtrack to our memories.
M.I. – Since you mentioned Spotify, I have to ask… Diva disappeared from the platform. What happened?
It was removed, and Swallow as well, because we’re preparing a remaster specifically for digital platforms. There were also licensing issues involved, so we decided to take care of everything at once.
We’re talking about albums originally recorded on tape, back in 1996 and 1998. Even though they were later transferred to CD, they can still sound considerably better when adapted properly for streaming.
Interestingly, when Larvae Records reissued Swallow, a very interesting remaster was done. The engineer responsible had previously worked on Carlos Paredes’ albums, and that immediately caught my attention. The goal was to preserve the analogue sound as faithfully as possible, without altering what makes the album what it is.
M.I. – Remasters don’t always manage to do that.
Exactly. There are albums where I still prefer the original versions. The important thing is to respect the personality of the record. When you change the sound too much, anyone who knows the album well notices it immediately. And it’s not one of those cases where “at first it sounds strange, then you get used to it.” No, it just sounds strange, full stop. Maybe it also has something to do with the emotional connection we have to those original recordings. That sound has become part of our memory.
M.I. – This new album almost feels like a solo project.
Not really. The foundation of the songs and lyrics has always come largely from me, that’s been the case for many years, but I certainly didn’t make this album alone. The drummer played a major role, both in the production and in recording the album. He also contributed some acoustic guitar parts. There are other guest musicians as well, so it definitely wasn’t a solitary effort.
And, of course, these songs will eventually be played live. We’re going to perform them, but I won’t be standing on stage alone with an acoustic guitar doing a one-man show. There are several musicians involved.
M.I. – But touring has never really been Heavenwood’s priority.
That’s right. We’ve received offers to tour, but I’ve never been fascinated by life on the road. I enjoy performing live, of course. I love festivals and special concerts, but at this stage of my life I can’t imagine spending months travelling around Europe in a van.
I’ve always enjoyed composing and writing much more. It’s a bit like being an author: you write the book and then let it find its readers. You don’t necessarily feel the need to spend every day promoting it in bookstores. Some musicians were simply born for the stage, and I have enormous respect for that. I just identify much more with the creative process.
M.I. – When did you realize that this second part absolutely had to exist? Was it already planned before your accident?
Yes. Some of the songs actually existed before the accident. I’m a very slow composer. I work whenever inspiration comes. I’ve never been someone who writes music out of obligation. Unfortunately, my inspiration often comes from melancholy. I don’t like talking about suffering because it sounds overly dramatic, but melancholy, nostalgia, loss… those are the emotions that always end up feeding what I write. Over the years, many things have happened that inevitably shaped the music. We lost our bassist, and he’s someone I still carry with me to every concert, he’s always present in my memory. Then there are relationships, disappointments, spirituality, the esoteric side, mythology… all of that naturally became part of Heavenwood’s universe.
M.I. – Tarot remains a central element of this album.
Absolutely. The first part focused on the Major Arcana. I never intended to cover every single card because that would have been practically impossible. The idea was never to create an original concept, since others had already explored Tarot before. What interested me was giving it my own musical interpretation, almost as if each card had its own soundtrack. I’m deeply fascinated by that symbolic dimension. Tarot isn’t an exact science. Its value lies in each person’s interpretation, and that’s precisely what fascinates me.
I’ve always been interested in figures such as Papus, Helena Blavatsky and Manly Palmer Hall. They were people who tried to understand what exists beyond purely rational explanations. I like that willingness to acknowledge that not everything can be scientifically proven.
M.I. – Your accident inevitably shaped this process, didn’t it?
Without a doubt. It was a very serious accident and it took me around four years to recover. I still have some physical limitations today, but I’m incomparably better than initially expected. It became another lesson in resilience.
Throughout my recovery I always kept a very clear mental picture of what I wanted to achieve in the future. I think that’s extremely important. I work exactly the same way when I compose. I build everything in my head first. I almost have an entire recording studio inside my mind. Then comes the difficult part: turning those ideas into reality, because there are always human and physical limitations. But I strongly believe in the power of visualizing your goals.
M.I. – You recently held two listening sessions, one in Porto and another in Lisbon. How did they go?
Really well. More than the number of people who attended, what touched me most was seeing longtime fans alongside very young people. That means a lot to me because I’ve been on the other side too, and I know what it means to meet someone whose music has accompanied you through life.
The sessions felt incredibly human. People asked questions, shared stories from twenty or thirty years ago, remembered concerts and episodes that I had almost forgotten myself. That means far more to me than any commercial success. I also loved seeing entire families there. Some parents brought their children, and that’s beautiful because it shows that metal is also about community. I’ve always felt that. You can go to a metal concert on your own and you’ll almost never feel alone. You’ll always end up meeting someone.
For years metal suffered from prejudice, but anyone who’s part of this community knows how strong the sense of unity really is. I’d also like to take these listening sessions to other regions of Portugal. Heavenwood has always had supporters all over the country, and I’d like to acknowledge that.
M.I. – This album closes a cycle that began almost a decade ago. When you finally completed it, did you feel more pressure or more freedom?
Freedom. I felt I had made a commitment to myself, I didn’t want to leave this story unfinished. This wasn’t an album that came together in a year, it represents many years of work. The recording sessions alone lasted almost a full year. We had time to experiment with different sounds, record countless takes and carefully refine every aspect of the mix.
Working with Niko Krauss was also a huge challenge. He comes from a background heavily connected to modern sounds, especially metalcore, whereas I was looking for a balance between that contemporary approach and a clearly vintage aesthetic. That contrast was exactly what I wanted to create.
The same happened with the visual side of the album. It took me a long time to convince the artist I wanted to create the cover artwork. Everyone kept telling me the whole project was being delayed because of the artwork, but I knew it had to be that particular artist. Now, looking back, all those obstacles have simply become part of the album’s story.
M.I. – You wanted Naya Kotko to create the album cover. What did you see in her work that nobody else could convey?
Her artistic vision, the symbolic dimension that exists in the work she creates. I can say that I don't appreciate everything she does, but more than 90% of her work resonates with me deeply. It was that feeling of seeing something and instantly identifying with it. In this case, I identified not only with myself but also with the concept of the album.
At the time, I felt that image was the face of the record, its gateway. The first thing that would spark people's curiosity and make them want to discover what was being represented musically. She expresses herself through images, and I found it very interesting how she manages to bring together different worlds: typography, illustration and the entire visual composition. The cover is full of symbolism.
On top of that, there are elements that mean a great deal to me personally. Ever since I was a child, I've had a special connection with the sea because of the strength and tranquillity it conveys. The sea is linked to emotions, the tides and the lunar phases. Then there's the sword, which symbolises knowledge, light and wisdom. All of that was present in the artwork she created, both on the front cover and the back cover. I had a really hard time deciding what should go on the front and what should go on the back. There are three figures on the back cover that also carry symbolic meaning for me. The triad can represent the past, the present and the future, for example. For many people it may not mean anything, but to me it's a form of communication. A silent form of communication.
Nowadays there are many different ways of communicating. People increasingly skim through what they read, and we're constantly bombarded with visual stimuli. An album cover can have multiple interpretations, just like music itself. If you play the same song to ten different people, you'll get ten different interpretations. And that's fascinating.
M.I. - At a time when there seems to be less and less capacity to interpret what one reads or hears, how do you explain that so many young people, like those you met at the listening sessions, continue to be interested in Heavenwood?
That's a good question. I think there are several possible answers, but above all it has to do with each person's personality and curiosity.
Some young people are drawn in by the musical side, by the sonic impact and the emotions the music awakens in them; others are more curious and want to dig deeper, read the lyrics and understand the concepts; others are interested in the technical side: how it was recorded, what equipment was used and how the album was produced.
For me, the important thing is that there's a way in. Once it gets in, that's great. It doesn't matter whether it came through the door, the window or down the chimney like Santa Claus. What matters is that it got in. The worst thing is when it doesn't. Anyone who writes and composes music is always trying to create a connection. To feel that something made someone stop for a moment and dedicate some time to what we created. And nowadays that's becoming increasingly difficult because everyone lives without time and without patience.
Not long ago I was joking with Manuel Fernandes, the owner of Bunker, saying that maybe the next album should have ten songs lasting nine seconds each. That way everyone could listen to the whole thing in a minute and a half and be done with it. Of course it was a joke, but it reflects today's reality quite well.
Releasing an album today is an enormous challenge. There's an absurd amount of music available, and people's time is becoming increasingly limited. So whenever someone listens, recommends it, shares it or comes to a concert, that has tremendous value.
M.I. – If you had to sum up this new album in a single idea, what would it be?
Resilience, because resilience encompasses many other things: belief, faith, dedication, commitment and focus. More than ever, we need to be resilient. Everything around us is constantly moving. Today it's sunny, tomorrow it rains. Today things go wrong, tomorrow they go right. The important thing is to stay focused on what we want to achieve and know how to align ourselves with the right moment. Luck is also important, but I strongly believe in the idea that the harder you work, the luckier you become. Things rarely fall from the sky.
For me, there's also another very important issue: freedom. Artistic freedom. I don't like the idea of creating music conditioned by trends, fashions or deadlines. This album could never have been made that way. Each song follows its own path and its own logic. The hardest part is always managing to place something abstract inside a concrete structure. It's like cooking a complex dish: all the ingredients have to work together. And that takes time. Just as a good wine needs time to mature, music does too. And listeners also need time to absorb it.
M.I. – There are albums that don't say anything to us the first time we hear them, but later become essential. Has that ever happened to you?
Many times. There are albums that I now consider absolute classics which, the first time I heard them, did absolutely nothing for me. That's because listening is also a process of communication. If we don't truly listen, it's very difficult to understand. Nowadays it's complicated because there's so much music available that giving an album several chances means not listening to something else. But I really believe in that process. Listen, let it settle, then listen again. That's the only way to truly understand a piece of music.
M.I. – In 2016 you released the first part of this Tarot-inspired narrative. Ten years later, has the way you interpret those cards changed?
The main thing that has changed is the way I look at certain aspects of the production. For example, today I might give the first part a different sound treatment. But at the same time, that production ended up giving it a very distinctive identity.
It's the same with some classic albums. There are Paradise Lost albums, for example, whose sound many people criticise, and I love them precisely because of that. If you completely changed their production, they'd probably lose part of their magic. The same sometimes happens with older black metal albums. Technically they weren't perfect, but they had personality.
So although I think certain things might sound different today, I also believe it's not always worth revisiting the past. It is what it is, and it belongs to the moment in which it was created.
M.I. – You mentioned returning to the stage. Are there already concrete plans?
Yes. Before the end of the year there will be a very special performance in Porto. More than just a concert, I want it to be a celebration. A meeting between different generations of listeners. An important moment both for the band and for everyone who has supported us throughout the years.
After that there will also be a show in Lisbon because we've been receiving many requests. Initially the idea was to do just one show this year and think about the next one later, but things are evolving naturally. We now have a Norwegian booking agency working with us, and I believe new opportunities will arise. Everything calmly, step by step.
M.I. – And does Mighty Music give you complete freedom to follow that path?
Yes. Interestingly enough, when I started working on this album I was completely focused on its release. I hadn't even thought about concerts or meeting fans. But during conversations with the label that idea came up, never as an obligation, but as a possibility. And I started to realise that maybe I was being too selfish by thinking only about the album. What we create isn't just for us. It also belongs to the people who follow the band. That's why it makes sense to create these moments of sharing. That's how these presentations and meet-and-greets came about. Ultimately, it's our way of thanking everyone who continues to support us.
M.I. – Ricardo, thank you very much for your time. I hope to see Heavenwood live again very soon.
Thank you. I hope so too. It should be before the end of the year.
For Portuguese version, click here
Listen to Heavenwood, on Spotify
Questions by Sónia Fonseca
